Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:00 p.m.

Deerfield Elementary

4353 W. Harvey Boulevard, Cedar Hills, Utah

Present:           City of Cedar Hills Representatives:

                        Mayor Mike McGee, Presiding

                        Council Members: Gary Maxwell, Charelle Bowman, Eric Richardson

                        Konrad Hildebrandt, City Manager

                        David Bunker, City Engineer

                        Kim E. Holindrake, City Recorder

                        Greg Robinson, Assistant to the City Manager

                        Pleasant Grove City Representatives:

                        Mayor Mike Daniels

Council Members: Mark Atwood, Cindy Boyd, Lee Jensen, Daryl McDade

                        Frank Mills, City Manager

                        John Schiess, Horrocks Engineering 

                        Mary Burgin, Deputy City Recorder

                        Tina Petersen, City Attorney

                        Ken Young, City Community Development Supervisor

                        Others: Approximately 120 residents attended.


1.         Call to Order, Invocation and Pledge


This special meeting, having been posted throughout the City and the press notified, was called to order at 7:05 p.m. by Mayor McGee.

            Invocation - Councilmember Mark Atwood

            Pledge - Councilmember Gary Maxwell


2.         Presentation on Proposed Boundary Adjustment Between the City of Cedar Hills and Pleasant Grove City


Mayor McGee stated that members of Pleasant Grove’s City Council are of the highest character and the Cedar Hills City Council as well. This effort has been jointly pursued.


John Schiess presented an overview and general idea of the proposal. He and David bunker were given the task to come up with a logical boundary for utilities. They reviewed certain considerations including existing utilities and political considerations. They outlined an area that was logical for services according to utilities where one city may serve an area better than another. Map reviewed. Identified Cedar Hills Drive and 4000 West in Cedar Hills/900 West in Pleasant Grove. Deerfield Elementary located. The green area is better served by Pleasant Grove. Pleasant Grove has a sewer up 900 West/4000 West to the northern green point. Pleasant Grove does have a sewer line in Wedgewood Drive but it ties into a Cedar Hills sewer line. Cedar Hills has sewer service throughout its road network. Cedar Hills can pick up the north area. Cedar Hills has a line up 9600 North and sewer all though the Pinnacle Point and Canyon Heights subdivisions.


John Schiess stated that decisions were also driven by safety and fire issues. The boundary is currently very disjointed. There is some confusion as to what areas are served by what city. What addresses do you use for emergencies; do you call Pleasant Grove or Cedar Hills? There is a lot of overlapping concerns. What are the possibilities of Pleasant Grove extending services? You could extend services anywhere you want if you have they money to do so. Pleasant Grove felt it wanted to limit duplication of services as much as possible. There is currently some duplications but it’s limited.


Mayor Daniels stated that he has been contacted by several individuals asking why this is being discussed. Many people who currently own property in Pleasant Grove are requesting development. Typically the requests are above the density or outside the area the city can provide services to them. Then they would like us to provide a service agreement with Cedar Hills. Cedar Hills do not see that as a economic solution to their citizens. Pleasant Grove residents have not paid the impact fees for those services or property taxes to maintain those services. If services were extended to them, it creates islands. Very few residents have requested to change from Cedar Hills to Pleasant Grove. Development is driving some of these requests. They want to maximize the amount of money they can make on their property. Pleasant Grove has a long-term policy to maintain very low density housing, one per half acre. The ability to develop in Cedar Hills is 2.2 or 20,000 square feet. You can see one house versus two and two versus four. We immediately receive a request for disconnection and annexation into Cedar Hills. He asked Frank Mills and the Community Development Department to compile statistics. Each request takes staff time to review, Planning Commission time to review and the City Council time. It also takes the County and then the two cities are then involved and either agree or disagree on the request. There are a number of requests in front of Pleasant Grove City right now. Many have been dragging on for six months or longer. Each one of these requests is nickle and diming it. We want to present to the people that are affected by the proposal to put the question to you. What you decide will determine what we can do now and what we can do in the future. Pleasant Grove is not trying to force people out of the city. We are trying to put question out there and get answer back. We sent in addition to the map the state code. This isn’t a decision by the City Council. It is a decision of the people. Percentages have to be met in order for it to pass or fail. We want to put that information in front of you and let you make those decisions. This will be adjusted or not, fail or pass. We ask that you her the information and look a that perspective short term or long term. The reason you have been given cards, when the time comes that there is actually a proposal that turns into an ordinance to be acted on it is only those with the cards that will have a say. If you live around the area, you are not affected. Those of you that don’t have that card are not affected. You are welcome to listen but we want to hear from those that are affected.


Mayor McGee asked that each person limit their comments to about three minutes Another point is the state law, which directs us as we look at our boundaries, to not produce islands or peninsulas. The Pleasant Grove boundaries are clearly in violation of that state law both the spirit and the letter of the law. My highest priority has been safety. A specific incident that was very traumatic and nearly caused a life of a 17-year-old girl was centered around this address and safety confusion. All this is very important.


3.         Public Comment


          Dennis Hullinger (#13) stated that it seems like every time someone new comes to power we go through this again. This is the first time we haven’t had the full support of Pleasant Grove. We’ve gone and talked to every single resident in the affected area. (Map passed out with shaded blue area representing those households that want to remain in Pleasant Grove.) Approximately 79% of the residents are firm to stay in Pleasant Grove. About 21 percent were not firm. Part of those are around the issue of the sewer because they pay double sewer with Cedar Hills. That affects why they wouldn’t sign or other issues. Concerning emergency service it could be solved easily with a dual addressing system. Cedar Hills has road names and that creates finding an address. Duplications of services could be solved with an interlocal agreement, which Cedar Hills continually rejects. There are no sewer services available. That could be solved by an interlocal agreement. The Pleasant Grove trunk line is no more than 1,300 feet from any house. We could be serviced by Pleasant Grove as the area develops. Pleasant Grove extends trunk lines all over. Why are they stopping out our way? It’s because Cedar Hills wants control of our property. I have some personal problems with Cedar Hills. There has been development around my property on the east and west. My fences have been destroyed, trees have been bulldozed over. I received a letter from Cedar Hills and their lawyer demanding I get rid of my honey bees. I could go on and on. Cedar Hills has no zoning for agriculture. We’re a rural community and we want to be a rural community. They have no library, no swimming pool, or recreation unless you count the golf course. They have no snow removal except what is contracted out and no police except what is contracted out. Pleasant Grove turning us over to that is a real kick in the face. That first scenario of an interlocal agreement is one solution. You could turn the percentages around by disconnecting a portion of Cedar Hills to Pleasant Grove. This current proposal Cedar Hills gives up four residents and Pleasant Grove is giving up 61 lots. With this diagram outlined in blue would disconnect portions from Cedar Hills to Pleasant Grove. It eliminates all the peninsula problems. Essentially it is currently south of Cedar Hills Drive and both sides of Canyon Road going into Pleasant Grove. It disconnects 108 properties from Cedar Hills. Pleasant grove would give up four. Out of those four properties one wouldn’t sign, couldn’t find a second, and the third we couldn’t contact. We don’t know where they stand. One does not want to go to Pleasant Grove because there are no services. They are serviced by Cedar Hills. If that was eliminated the percentage would clime into the 90% range. An interlocal agreement would be a vital important step. I don’t know why that wouldn’t work except Cedar Hills won’t do it. They have refused for the past 20 years.

          Mayor McGee stated that impact fees are around $4,500 per unit. In addition the whole point of the infrastructure investment is that all those in Cedar Hills have paid their impact fees. Those who anticipate to be on water or sewer would then be receiving a service and not paying for that service. It would be subsidized by residents of Cedar Hills. In our opinion and that of our citizens that would be a grossly unfair practice. To answer several other questions raised. Cedar Hills does have fire and police. It’s not a beggarly situation as implied. By contract Cedar Hills has five full-time police officers. We have a fire station in Cedar Hills with EMT and paramedics. The implication that services in Cedar Hills are substandard is certainly not true. Library services are reimbursed and residents have a choice of any library they want to attend. Further more a North County Library system is being discussed. It is being advertised through the north end of the County so that is a mute point. The statement that services could be extended to residents of Pleasant Grove is true, at a price. Many of you may not be aware but the price of water and sewer services has increased dramatically. It doesn’t make economic or fiscal sense to duplicate services. Regardless it is very expensive to extend. In this day and age is doesn’t make sense to duplicate service in any way shape or form. Mayor Daniels stated that it is important to note as we have discussed cutting up Cedar Hills roads to put sewer services in for Pleasant Grove citizens, that’s been discouraged or not allowed because of the age of the roads or services are already there.

          Dennis Hullinger stated that Cedar Hills put a sewer line up 4000 North through Pleasant Grove and it is an old deteriorating road. The sewer line has never been used since it was put in by the church. There was some agreement with the church. It was an effort by Cedar Hills to force us into their system. Mayor Daniels stated that he can see where that could be viewed that way. He is aware of a project that is going to put Pleasant Grove sewer in 4000 North to allow Pleasant Grove residents to connect to it. That would resolve that issue for those people. Cindy Boyd stated that with a service agreement, they would not need to put in a sewer line. Mayor Daniels stated that they have attempted to create a service agreement, which needs two parties. At this moment there are no Cedar Hills residents that need this agreement. There are only Pleasant Grove residents that need the agreement. The method of an individual citizen to change cities is to request a disconnect and then annexation. The way for two cities is to boundary adjust the lines. Dennis’s proposal can only be accomplished by the cities. Mayor McGee stated that a key component of the issue is Cedar Hills has 30 requests to disconnect from Pleasant Grove.

          Maurice Millet (#59) stated that he has a number of the same concerns that have been addressed previously. He only wants to underscore the issue of the interlocal agreement. He knows they exist between Lindon and Pleasant Grove and between Cedar Hills and American Fork. Also as a resident for 23 years, the efforts by the two cities have been dead locked and stale mated. He is not privy to all the issues. All the issues discussed on safety, services, and so on could be reached. He is not privy to know what inducement Pleasant Grove might receive to encourage them to give away 60 tax paying residents in exchange for 6. It is not equitable when there could be a solution with an interlocal agreement. The issue has been raised of those residents that may be serviced by Cedar Hills not having paid impact fees. Those residents have paid taxes to Pleasant Grove. In equity they have paid what is required to receive services. If two cities come to agreement, he doesn’t see where the issue of impact fees is even germane. Last time this was debated, the residents requested that we be annexed into Pleasant Grove, those in the County. What has changed in the minds of those residents that they now should be put in Cedar Hills? As a resident of Pleasant Grove with a Pleasant Grove address for 23 years, he is being asked to abandon the benefits of Pleasant Grove library and recreation. He prizes the ability to have access to Tri City Golf. He doesn’t see giving that up for an assessment as an advantage. He hopes that the whole process being a result by the voice of the people and not by the committee of the cities is truly the case. There may be some that have land they want to develop that Cedar Hills would allow. Others want to sit on a half acre and don’t want to subdivide or have their neighbors subdividing. He truly hopes this will come to an honest assessment of what the people desire. Work towards a local agreement.

          Tom Freeman (#70) stated rather than rehashing they have done this very well. He wants the services of Pleasant Grove. This battle was fought at the time he moved in. He thinks the key point here is your elected officials are here to serve. It is easier for him to say that than work it all out. He doesn’t feel that because two council have come to a head that he should pay more for services or taxes. He teaches 5th grade and most of the kids say they don’t have library services. A $45 reimbursement by Cedar Hills and Pleasant Grove library costs $70, there might be some compensation. Those are issues that need to be addressed. He heard from the council it may be a hassle that has been negated by logic and reason and coming together. There is the spirit of the law and letter of the law. We should cooperate with one another. He doesn’t want to subsidize someone who develops their lot. He can crank up his stereo and live his life. He hates for one of those to wind up next to him. If they want to develop, charge them. Don’t make him pay for that.

          Charles Headman (#11) stated that he moved out here 22 years ago to be in the county not the city. He is a retired city employee and worked in government for a long time. Things between Cedar Hills and Pleasant Grove is the biggest joke every seen. Working with Springville and Orem, they took care of one another. Cedar Hills is a big joke, not a city. It’s not a city or a business. The smartest thing you could have done is put that golf course in a business section. Golf courses are losing and a big problem to any city. You are a service to the people to cut costs not improve it. He is 100 percent against being in Cedar Hills. He is not going to be a part of it.

          Gary Beagley (#8) stated that he speaks for his mother, Maureen Beagley. He would like to be moved into Cedar Hills. His mother wants to sell her property, retire, and have money to finish her life. A lot of issues are not talked about. The agreements are not done or put together. He’s only been involved for one year. They haven’t been able to get an answer on h ow to resolve the issue. No answer. They don’t know all the politics. It seems somehow they ought to be able to do this and make it happen rather than calling people names or cities names. He thinks it’s more beneficial to look at the problems and concerns rather than just whatever. The numbers don’t add up if 30 people want to move into Cedar Hills. They might just be tired of trying to make this happen. He doesn’t know the road blocks but the cities need to make it work.

          Dan Stewart (#71) stated that he is just like most neighbors who have spoke and mentioned they live in a rural area. He moved here by choice. People want to develop and that’s okey with him but not around him. It happened in Orem. Cedar Hills wants to annex property to increase property taxes. It’s all about revenue. There is a $7,000,000 loan on the golf course and Cedar Hills is holding onto it. Let it go; Mayor Sears is gone. Give the golf course away and stop hurting your citizens. We love Pleasant Grove. We aren’t demanding services from them. He is tired of arguing with Frank Mills for a sewer line. All the water comes from the Manila wells. Pleasant Grove wants to give one of our wells away. We live in a desert state. We don’t have water to give away. What is Pleasant Grove’s motivation other than get rid of citizens. Frankly he doesn’t want this to be contentious. These kinds of issues can create a lot of stress. We are all reasonable people. We want peace in our families. They call us happy valley. We could be if Cedar Hills stayed north of Cedar Hills Drive and give us our residents. Pleasant Grove didn’t start this and neither did Mayor McGee. It was your predecessors. It’s not about services. Truth be told when dialing 911 you are asked what city are you in. It is all dispatched by Pleasant Grove. He doesn’t mean to argue and he doesn’t want new services. Just let us live in peace.

          Bruce Hatch (#24) stated that he is on the list of people in Pleasant Grove begging and pleading to go in to Cedar Hills. After four years working with both cities, he is begging and pleading to stay in Pleasant Grove. His experience is he has a line 50 feet in front of house in Cedar Hills and one 75 feet away in Pleasant Grove. Delays have cost him thousands and thousands of dollars. It is frustrating. He has spoke to Cedar Hills and feels like an annoyance to them. Pleasant Grove has been responsive to his needs. They have treated him like a citizen. He has spoken to both mayors. He sees Mayor McGee laughing at things said and Mayor Daniels listening. Cedar Hills is struggling financially and he doesn’t want to pick that up.

          Steve Graham (#33) stated that he has lived here for years and served on the Manila Water Company so he has some experience. He is completely opposed. If the cities are concerned about creating peninsulas, they have. Draw the line at the canal or leave things the way they are. He moved here to be in the County, then the township, and then he chose Pleasant Grove and continues to choose Pleasant Grove.

          Nancy Girard (#15) stated that she doesn’t want to be pushed into Cedar Hills. She moved here for the space. She is a country girl. She does understand development and how it is beneficial. Her property is cut in half between Cedar Hills and Pleasant Grove. Her house is in Cedar Hills. This creates more confusion. John Schiess stated it’s a general boundary and of course properties wouldn’t be split. Ms. Girard stated that she doesn’t want to be in Cedar Hills. Others have touched on the golf course issue and tax dollars. She has a lot of issues. Someone mentioned digging up roads to put in sewer systems. She is concerned that sewer lines will be put through properties and fences will be ripped down. She has a tree that is over 100 years old. She asked if she would have the opportunity to save her tree or would she not have a choice.

          Mary-Jo Hall (#56) stated that she has a number of concerns and many have been adequately addressed by others. She doesn’t believe that this has anything to do with emergency or utilities. She thinks it is politically driven since it came up a number of years ago. She is not badmouthing Cedar Hills. Cedar Hills wants more revenue and needs more people. For her personally, if there was really a concern for emergency, why cut it in the middle of the block? If someone is looking for her home, they wouldn’t think to stop in the middle of the block. Saying that she is still concerned for everyone involved. She has called 911 before. She knows what city she lives in and they ask. They send the proper people out. She may have problems with pizza delivery. Salt Lake County addressed everything with county addresses. She doesn’t know if Pleasant Grove can do that. She would go back to the county address. It doesn’t make any difference. She is close to Pleasant Grove sewer lines. She has already paid for some sewer line in Pleasant Grove. One of the things she’d like addressed is why the discrepancy of 40 residents to Cedar Hills. It may be from developers with lots. Cedar Hills has an agreement with American Fork, why not with Pleasant Grove. She has other things involved in her life right now. She can’t deal with this right now. She is absolutely sick of it. She knows it could be resolved with an interlocal agreement. There are no problems calling 911. She doesn’t want to pay for the golf course. Her taxes have gone up so much, she has been looking for another place. It would cost her more money to move. People in Cedar Hills want out. Those people who want to cut up their lots, she would like to make money also but not on other peoples backs. They shouldn’t be given preference. John Schiess said that there are political considerations also. Mayor Daniels stated that the engineers can only do so much as to where the services can be provided. They did their best. There is a Cedar Hills sewer line in 9600 North and also a Pleasant Grove sewer line going in. When engineers looked at that and how the properties faced, they recommended it go behind the property lines on the street. He said no, put it in the road. Pleasant Grove is not going through a nickel and dime way. That is the political part of this.

          Cindy Boyd stated that Pleasant Grove put sewer in for the township and Pleasant Grove area. They were all given the opportunity to pay sewer hookups of around $287. The majority of the people annexed at that time prepaid their sewer hookups. Politically, in the year and four months this issue has been looked at, it has varied. The service lines have varied throughout all of the discussions. It is political and an agreement has not been met for one reason or another. The map presented today is what has been determined as the service areas at this point. There has been some political back and forth with that. She has four or five maps from all of these discussions. A year ago it was a service agreement. She has been a resident for 54 year and this is the best solution. It just needs to be worked out for everyone. Mary-Jo Hall stated that if it was up to a vote tonight, the meeting could be closed tonight. The majority of the residents want to be in Pleasant Grove. If the Councils are being honest, there would not be a need for this meeting. Mayor Daniels stated that it can’t be by gang rule. Only those affected have a say and by private vote. That can’t be conducted tonight. Mary-Jo Hall stated she is not saying that but if everyone with a green card has a vote, it would be done. She feels Mayor Daniels is interested in what is being said and Mayor McGee is being very smug.

          Mayor Daniels stated that from a legal point that is why the State Code was passed out. What can make this work or fail is the acreage involved and the value of the acreage involved. Everyone needs to understand the law. Tina Petersen stated that it is not a secret ballot. Residents file a written protest at or before the meeting to adopt the boundary adjustment.

          Mayor McGee stated that he thinks many have observed something that isn’t true. He is a happy guy and if anyone thinks that he is smug they have mistaken. He has never intended to be smug. When something is said and everyone laughs, he will laugh also. If anyone feels he is smug that is not the case. He is interested in hearing what anyone has to say or he wouldn’t be here. His son is leaving for his mission tomorrow morning but he is here to support residents and hear what they have to say.

          Virginia Woods (#55) stated that she has lived here for 25 years. She first moved here and was in the County and kids could go running. She is now surrounded by the .22 lots. Kids think her forest is their playground. She is below 9600 North and Pleasant Grove sent her a letter stating that they couldn’t provide sewer because they won’t go under the canal. Canyon Road is a very busy street. It would serve them to subdivide their lots. Why can’t Pleasant Grove change the ½ acre lot? Why can’t Pleasant Grove and Cedar Hills have a joint agreement.

          Holly Nielsen (#53) stated that she moved here in 1998. She thought she was buying Cedar Hills horse property. She is in Pleasant Grove and wants to be in Pleasant Grove. If her septic system fails, who will take care of her. Neither city can service her. Mayor McGee clarified that if a resident is within 300 feet it has to hook onto sewer if the septic fails. Ms. Nielsen stated that when Cedar Hills put in the pressurized irrigation, they were told that you could hook on if you were in Cedar Hills. When the system was put in, it wasn’t done very well. The line broke in the road and she called Cedar Hills City. She were told it wasn’t in Cedar Hills. The water ran for over three hours and no one would come out. Three neighbors called. As far as safety, she was in an accident in her driveway. A near death experience. A witness called and Pleasant Grove came out. She was taken to American Fork Hospital. There is not problem with the police or anyone finding them. She doesn’t think safety is an issue. She is tired of this. It is a heartache to get these papers. She is in Pleasant Grove, leave her there. Leave us alone.

          Delbert Atkinson (#22 and #54) stated that he owns two properties on Canyon Road. He was born in Pleasant Grove and lived here all his life. His great, great grandfather settled the area. He has put up with this for over 30 years. It is tiresome. The problems were caused by two illegal cherry stems created by Cedar Hills. The County didn’t do anything about it. Anything attached is the poisonous fruit.

          David Bragonje stated that he owns property on 4000 North at the four-way stop there. He bought his lot recently and would like to build on it. The biggest problem is sewer. There is a sewer going in that road and the previous owner paid a connection. He would not like to pay the additional fee for the sewer installation in front of his lot. The pressurized irrigation is available by Cedar Hills. He doesn’t have irrigation water any longer. There is a concern with public safety with a fire station ½ mile away instead of 3 miles in Pleasant Grove. He would rather be closer to emergency response. He has two addresses for his lot. One is a County address and one is a city address. That’s a headache. Across the street there is a subdivision with 1/4 acre lots, nine homes. There is another subdivision behind him and a big home. He has development going in all around him. Even if he divided his lot, he has .86 acres, he would have 18,500 square foot size lots. With regards to the zoning for this area, why not have more options. The neighbor to the west is on Cedar Hills sewer and pays double. He talked to him yesterday and doesn’t think he would be opposed. Many are opposed and that’s fine. He is affected because he is not being included. He can’t hook onto the sewer in front of his house. With the person on the corner willing to go in Cedar Hills, it would not create an obtuse situation. Cedar Hills provides services there.

          Don Wadley stated that Mr. Schiess talked about sewer and really didn’t discuss water. The issue to raise is what impact will this make on the storm water system. The nine lots on Bob Monson’s property, they go nowhere. We need to look at what this proposal does to the storm water.

          Fred Levin stated that he had a gentleman come with a UPS truck and asked do you know where I am. He tole him, you are in Pleasant Grove and I’m in Cedar Hills. You can’t find his place. He has asked for three years for a street sign on 9600 north. As far as annexation he wanted to be in Pleasant Grove. Financially right now he is better off sticking with Cedar Hills. He has a small one-acre lot and can create a flag lot. If Mayor Daniels gives him permission to create a lot, he’ll come to Pleasant Grove.

          Mayor McGee commented on remarks made. His intent is to correct some imperfect knowledge about what is going on. Impact fees paid to Pleasant Grove are not paying for any infrastructure in Cedar Hills. Taxes in both cities are almost exactly the same. The library reimbursement of $50 is a pretty good deal. Cedar Hills owns the entire golf course and only a portion is located in Highland. The golf issue will be resolved in 24 months and be debt free. There was a statement made that most of the water supply comes from Manila. Very little of the water used in Cedar Hills comes from Manila. It comes from a well located in Cedar Hills and the City is currently creating another well. Taxes are a huge misconception, It’s a fact that a residential property consumes 125% of the taxes it pays. It’s a negative situation. To say that Cedar Hills is making a land grab to get taxes doesn’t make sense. He re-emphasized the fact that if you are within 300 feet of sewer line and your septic system fails, it is illegal to rejuvenate it. You have to hook on to the sewer. Cedar Hills has specifically not asked for any wells from Manila Water Company. John Schiess stated that the two wells owned by Manila Water Company are located in Cedar Hills. The only residents in Cedar Hills using Manila Waster have Manila Water shares and they have that right. Mayor McGee stated that the County Mayors Association has discussed changing everything to County addresses. The County center line will also change. He took exception to a comment made that Pleasant Grove elected officials were getting something being on board with this. They are not getting anything or soliciting anything. The safety issue is in response time. In the north end of these finger-like areas, it takes 20 minutes for a response.

          Mayor Daniels stated that it comes down to people are coming to Pleasant Grove to be boundary adjusted out of the city because Pleasant Grove can’t provide services. When Pleasant Grove can’t provide services, the city deals with them one at a time. Pleasant Grove has the same responsibility to deal with them and others. Attempts to work out an interlocal agreement have failed. This is a different way to provide services to those people. They have their own needs and desires. As far as safety concerns, there are water tables with wells. Many residents have septic systems in the same proximity. There is a concern that filing septic tanks could affect these water levels. That is a health, safety, and welfare issue. That is some rational on the issue. A lot of people come in and want to remain on large open acres. Then there are those who have the right to not live on large open acres. Where do some rights out rule others rights. Each person has rights. Many would say they want half acres. Those are some considerations that need to be thought through. As far as sewer services, going through someone’s property is not done in Pleasant Grove. It must go through a public right-of-way, street, or designated right-of-way. Storm water is supposed to be a normal planning process. There should be proper methodology for storm water and to a proper facility. Pleasant Grove has attempted to create a interlocal agreement with Cedar Hills. For reasons it is not fair to their residents so the cities came up with this boundary agreement. It seems on face value that most don’t want that to go through. The issues are not about taxes, sewer, emergency services, or size of land; they are about the perception or reality of how someone may be treated by another city. It is a judgement call based on what he is hearing. This is not about the things that are trying to addressed here. This is about the perception of how people are treated by their cities. Pleasant Grove doesn’t want to kick out its residents but to provide services. There are cases where Pleasant Grove can’t provide services. Some of residents came predisposed and excited. The cities will try to adjust this and work out an agreement. If it doesn’t work, individuals will come and Pleasant Grove will have to make a determination on what is best for them and the city. That means residents may have additional houses near them. He urged residents to consider the long-term objective and not to assume that these are callus decisions. The Council is very concerned. The Cedar Hills Council and Mayor are concerned. Meetings have been held regularly. This may not be perfect and they will try something else.

          Charles Headman asked where the sewer plant is located. Mayor McGee stated that it is the same for all cities. Mr. Headman stated that if it all ends up in the same spot what difference does it make. Mayor Daniels stated that the cost of running the Timpanogos Special Service District is in 80 million for improvements. Cities are taxed by how much they put into the system. It is metered. Mayor McGee stated that when sewer goes to a main line at some point it is measured and the city gets charged. Mayor Daniels stated that Pleasant Grove has residents in the city that are hooked up to the Cedar Hills system and refuse to pay. Is that fair? He suggest that we wouldn’t be in part of this position if people would pay their bill. Cedar Hills has every right to request it. They can’t shut the sewer off. If they are getting charged for sewer, should Pleasant Grove pay that bill? We should.

          Councilmember Atwood stated that this has been a good meeting. The information colleted is great and the concerns are well noted. He has been on the Council for five years and working on this all five years. It is a shame the cities can’t come to some kind of agreement where people can hook to services. He does not want to push anyone somewhere.

          Councilmember Bowman stated that Pleasant Grove is a great city. She grew up in Orem and is familiar with the area. She has been involved with this for 1.5 years. She understands the emotions coming out and why some of the comments are made. She really hops the cities can work together. She has never seen an interlocal agreement. Cedar Hills has a commercial district that she is concerned about, not adding additional lots to the City. When looking at the boundary, anybody feels its crazy. It is a messy puzzle piece. The priority is to clean it up and make sense for residents in both cities. She feel bad for those who have been involved for 20 years. She has a couple of points. First in regards to the interlocal agreement. Property taxes help maintain sewer lines. If a resident is in Pleasant Grove but serviced by Cedar Hills, they don’t pay taxes to maintain lines. The double sewer rate is new to her. Her understanding is that Pleasant Grove won’t let residents go. The cities need to get this taken care of the best way possible. There are tons of great things happening in Cedar Hills, a commercial area, a recreation center. Everyone is neighbors and friends. Everyone needs to try to get along and get through this. Set emotion aside for the long term.

          Councilmember Jensen stated that the Pleasant Grove City Council can’t be the problem and the Cedar Hills Council can’t be the problem. Each was elected to represent the people. To know what are the desires of the public. To listen and implement procedures, policies, resolutions, and ordinances to best affect the residents they represent. He doesn’t want to be the problem but the solution.

          Councilmember Richardson stated that there is a lot of emotion tonight. He hasn’t lived here his whole life but has read the histories. Some people have felt wronged at times. On behalf of his city, he is truly sorry and those emotional concerns run deeper than the facts. That is a concern for him. He is committed to make the situation better. The cities will always work together and have boundaries with one another. It is not his intent to force anyone into a city but to do what’s best. Cities are around for the residents.

          Councilmember Boyd stated that there is a spirit about Manila in this area. She doesn’t know how you put a name of feeling to it. There is a feeling of camaraderie. Residents of Cedar Hills, American Fork and Pleasant Grove go to church together. She has a daughter in Pleasant Grove High School and one in Lone Peak High School. It is a unique situation. There is a variety things that bring residents together. She feels there can be a service agreement. She supported a service agreement for probably 10 years when the Township came into Pleasant Grove. She supports it now. Dave Thurgood, Pleasant Grove Engineer, wrote a service agreement with Lindon. She’s sure Cedar Hills has an agreement with American Fork that is peaceful. The cities can come up with a peaceful agreement. We live in a choice land and her roots go deep into this area. She is a seventh generation attending the old white church. There is not animosity toward Cedar Hills. An overlay zone could be created that removes those boundaries. Lift the boundaries and let people stay where they are.

          Councilmember Maxwell stated that he has lived here 6.5 years. The cities need to figure out something that will work. He is a real estate developer and has developed in Pleasant Grove. He doesn’t have any negative feelings whatsoever. He just built his last home and will live here forever. The cities can figure something out. There are two great communities. There is a little bit of misperception about Cedar Hills. Cedar Hills will not have a golf course debt shortly and will have commercial shortly. It is a great place to live. He realizes there has been some challenges in past, and he is not minimizing those whatsoever. There needs to be some kind of agreement long term so some can develop slightly and others can keep acreage. Never will 100% of the people be happy. The cities can work together and are headed in the right direction.

          Councilmember McDade stated that in his mind in looking at the issues something has to be done. It is clear to him that many residents have a misunderstanding and not all the facts. Mayor McGee was able to answer all the issues. Residents really need to know the issues. There have been some real serious issue before the Council that had to be turned down. Many thing residents don’t know about. Residents should really look into these thing and not make rash decisions. It’s almost nonsense. There are legitimate concerns but residents haven’t looked into the whole issue. It can’t get done without the residents. The city expects something from the residents and the city will do its best. It’s been long drawn out. It probably won’t go away. It’s not looking ahead if the though is that the area won’t build out. It will.

          Tina Petersen explained the process in that each city adopts a resolution declaring its intent to boundary adjust. Then there is a 60-day waiting period for protests, which have to be written. Public hearings are held by each city. Today is just an information hearing. Residents can file before the resolution is adopted and must be submitted to the city recorder. Pleasant Grove asks for a name, address, amount of property owned, tax notice valuation, and parcel number. The current proposal is to adjust boundaries. She doesn’t know if the cities are going to move forward with this proposal. That decision is up to the city councils. Mayor Daniels stated that Pleasant Grove will mail a form out to all the affected properties. Pleasant Grove will readdress what was put out as a proposal. It is only fair that everyone regroup, rediscuss, etc.

          Frank Mills stated that he loves the golf course. Cedar Hills does not need an interlocal agreement. Pleasant Grove needs the agreement. Cedar Hills needs to say yes for nonresidents to use their system. In working with the legislature, typically interlocal agreements are not being made that include services that have to be paid for. They are getting away from that. The big issue was they were looking at cities with those interlocal agreements. Pleasant Grove has one with Lindon for water. The issue comes that those people living in Lindon and have services from Pleasant Grove have not say on rates. Those are set by Pleasant Grove. They get services but have not say. The state legislature is looking at the issue and more cities are doing this. The smaller cities rates are going up. The legislature is looking at putting cities with interlocal agreements under the umbrella of the Public Service Commission. I could not with good conscience do that to Cedar Hills. Cedar hills’ water and sewer would then be under the Public Service Commission. Using back hoes and dump truck is great. Paid services is different; this is a one sided issue.

          Mayor Daniels stated that he has something unique to say to this group. Most people on the City Council for Pleasant Grove can’t claim this either. He and his wife moved to Manila. They moved to Canyon Road where their dog was hit and killed. They lived by Tim Ekins. Their back yard was an orchard. They wanted to buy a five-acre lot and live in this beautiful area. The LDS Temple was announced before they bought a lot. They could only afford to move back into the City. He raised some of the children and grandchildren of the residents present. Those children and grandchildren thank him all the time for his service. He organized a Luau where they sold over 500 tickets. The area ran from 2600 North past 4000 West to the Training School and up past Tim Ekins house. He was shocked when he stood on Bruce Elliot’s front lawn and listened to two people who almost came to a fist fight over the name of their city. That is absolutely despicable. He is ashamed of that. He is ashamed that he can be so close to people who fight about the name of a city. His friends here that he has come to know can’t relate to that. They can’t understand what it means to farm the land, raise the orchard, grow the cherries, pick the trees, do the bees, the whole nine yards and watch all of that lose and go away. The one person here who really understands is sitting right here and is desperately trying to hold onto that environment. When residents look at him and call him a traitor for having stood up and backing them up and doing what’s right in a political environment, he doesn’t think they have done their homework and really don’t know who he is. He has served them and given them everything he has. From the time he moved into the neighborhood until now. When he runs into someone in the store and they give him that look he doesn’t appreciate it. He serves residents now despite what happens in the rest of the city. He has given residents more than 40 hours a week of his time for nothing. When he says residents need to reconsider long-term objectives, damn it that’s what he means. Don’t cut off your nose despite your face. This is not the Hatfields and McCoys. He is talking about people, neighbors, and the future. Residents have a right to their property, land and animals. One resident can’t tell someone else they can’t have that. Live in peace. Think about this. What will solve this problem? Will it be dealt with in another four years from now? What will solve this problem? Residents will. He is appealing to the residents. Think of the grandchildren in the future. Please think about it. This has been an awakening tonight. There is not enough support to go forward. He will go back with Cedar Hills and work on a service agreement. If it fails, will residents say he didn’t do enough. He invites and begs residents that in two years and 7.5 months to stand up and put their name before 28,000 people and do what he has done. Put their money where their mouth is. This is not an easy job for anyone. Step up and participate. Please don’t make accusations about the intent of the people serving. He serves and his children serve. He put $30,000 of his own money into the park that the children go to and a year and a half of effort. How can anyone say he is selling out. This is a neighborhood of people. Everyone needs to think about the future, not just the present. Everyone has to preserve the past while looking to the future. Please if anyone has ideas that can help solve the problem so everyone is a winner, come meet with the City Council privately, individually, calmly. Don’t make irrational decisions in the comforts of their homes and ask to be left alone when there are problems everywhere to be addressed. If he has offended anyone by what he has said, he has earned that right. He has given exactly everything he has to make this happen. This has been a sacrifice on his six children and his wife. Volunteer, step up, do something but don’t sit back and criticize. That is the lowest form of participation in government. He doesn’t take anonymity at all. Don’t prejudge him. He has lived here long enough and has invested long enough to be called a resident of both Pleasant Grove and Manila.


4.         Discussion by City Councils


5          Adjourn

            This meeting was adjourned by Mayor McGee at 9:56 p.m.

                                                                           /s/ Kim E. Holindrake

                                                                        Kim E. Holindrake, City Recorder

Approved by Council:

    June 19, 2007